xEL VEGANOx

BTW, did you know that many feedlot-raised cows end up eating some of their own manure mixed in with their feed? Apparently, it helps cut down on costs. In the end, as you are getting vitamins from the food the cow has eaten and synthesized, so, too, are you also getting that poo.

Ruhlman said, “I don’t know why vegetarianism got mixed into this stew. I have no issues with vegetarianism. Some of my best friends are vegetarian!”

I’m curious, why do you have so much more disdain for vegans than for vegetarians?

You’ve given me a great idea: Clothing made from bacon. When it gets warm out and you’re hungry, eat your jacket.

I’ll take a Smoked Maple 42 Regular.

Aromatically,

Claudia

I just wish I had a spray can with the delightful scent of bacon cooking. Vegan or not, everyone salivates when that aroma is present.

Apparently, there is more to it than whether the parents just fed their baby a vegan diet. The mother never went for a baby check up of any kind while she was pregnant, and gave birth at home – without any medical aid whatsoever – in the bath tub. Now, while I understand their have been plenty of women who have “freebirthed” without incident, I don’t know that any of those aficionados did so without EVER having a baby check while pregnant, and I don’t want to ignite a firestorm about whether freebirth is a good idea . . . that’s not my point. My point is, the parents are now being looked at as at least negligent, if not abusive, not because they fed their kid a vegan diet, but because they apparently did so without doing their homework or without the guidance of an ob/gyn or pediatrician. This story has generated some buzz here in NYC (and is not the first of its kind to make headlines).

Of course, there are plenty of children around the world who have quite obviously made it through infancy on a vegan diet to a healthy adulthood, and there are plenty of babies who have been born at home without the benefit of a doctor, nurse, midwife or “doula”. (When I was child, living in Asia, there were still women who gave birth in the fields while they worked – not that I’d personally endorse that!)

I think, in the case of these particular vegan parents, that it was not so much a case of abuse or willful neglect as it is simple ignorance – they did not bother to work with a pediatrician as to how much food, what kind and what supplements were needed to simultaneously adhere to a vegan diet while giving their baby enough nutrients to survive – never mind thrive. You can’t just scale down an adult vegan diet to baby size, and I believe that was the mistake made here.

So, before we get too “het up” decrying vegan parents who put newborns on a vegan diet, I think we have to keep in mind that there are other elements to this particular story that Nina Planck did not address – such as pre-natal care, etc. – and that Nina herself might have had an axe to grind. As to “vegan” dogs and cats? Well, again, in Asia, when people do not have much (or any) meat, their dogs and cats don’t, either, and seem to survive just fine. (My cats, however, eat meat because I do – and demand steak and/or BBQ sauce, too, if they get scraps. I blame myself . . . !)

i was appalled to read this entry(http://www.megnut.com/2007/05/is-human-breast-milk-vegan#c) by blogger megnut. “is human breast milk vegan”? even non vegans would find the question ridiculous. the only observation i could make was that megnut claims to have been an almost-vegan…as does nina planck who says she was a vegan before she got pregnant. it seems to me that some people embrace an alternate lifestyle without learning fully about it and when they quit that after the obvious disappointments, some of them set out to paint the entire lifestyle and it’s proponents in bad colours. the sentiment that is shared by planck, megnut..and even ed levine at serious eats seems to be that vegans are not fit to procreate or be parents. out of nowhere(and not from learned, dedicated, practicing vegans themselves), a rumour sprouts that vegans dont breastfeed and confusion abounds. maybe we ought to think, investigate before passing judgement on who should and shouldnt raise babies?

secondly, i am from a third world country. we were always denied meat. thats a first hand report for you.

vegans never deny their children breastmilk. once again, too much anti vegan propoganda spreading out there is spreading misinformation.

queenofthegrid: i agree re cats. but dogs dont always need meat. i am not sure about vegan diets, but dogs can survive on vegetarian diets. apparently, this is especially true for certain breeds of dogs that can lose hair because of allergies.

claudia: good for you. anyone who lectures anyone else how to live their personal lives deserve a rebuttal.

and finally, i believe that there are two vegan approved soy based baby formula. soy milk and fruit juice is not vegan approved for infants. half knowledge is dangerous.

her business interests are also closely related to farms and animal products(granted..farmers markets are mostly about produce, but her involvement as an investor with farmtochef express cannot afford a vegan stance.) am i being overly critical? probably. why not? after all, this woman just called vegans baby killers and got published in nytimes.

my objections stem from personal experiences. raised in a third world country, i know first hand how difficult it is for poor families to raise healthy children without animal products. and they do it pretty well too. and while not denying their humanity too!! how is that for a miracle?

what spells as supreme arrogance to me is someone sitting in the comfort of their home…in one of the richest countries of the world… and declaring that not consuming animal products is a denial of humanity. such pronouncements enrage me and i think such statements are spectacularly ignorant, unkind and particularly perverse given how embracing said humanity based on ingesting animal product has resulted in a undernourished and morbidly obese society…in more ways than one.

Perhaps you, like I, suspect that Plank was writing from her gut and not listening to her brain?

I’m no fan of veganism, but most of my objections are personal and have no obvious basis in science.
So, I cannot in good faith condemn the practice of rejecting food derived from animals on anything other than aesthetic grounds.

If someone chooses to feed their family without including animal products, and they do the hard work of making sure that there is a proper balance of nutrients and enough calories to keep them healthy and vigorous, then on what grounds could any fair minided person object?

mcdougall reply to nytimes>
http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007other/nytimes.html

on nina planck:

Nina Planck does not have any formal training in nutritional sciences.

She has identified the source of her assumptions about the nutritional health of a vegan diet on babies as originating from comments made by one family medical practitioner based on anecdotal observations from his vegan and vegetarian clients.

she says in her website:

“Today a correspondent asked me to disclose whether I am paid by the meat, dairy, fish, or egg industry. Good question. I am not. I’m an independent food writer and I study the work of scientists and nutritionists.”

meanwhile, she also says..

“Some readers asked about my sources. Among many sources for this piece, I interviewed a family practitioner who treats many vegetarian and vegan families.”

enough said.

Michael, I’ve done a bit of digging on the subject of vegan and vegetarian diets and whether or not they are appropriate for infants. And what I found is that if the diet is well planned it is possible to raise a healthy child without feeding it animal products.

I cannot speak to the idea that doing so is or is not arrogant, but according to the American Dietetic Association (http://tinyurl.com/2g8f2n) and the American Academy of Pediatrics
(http://tinyurl.com/2hbumg) it can be done. You can raise a healthy infant on a vegan diet.

So I’m going to have to say that Nina Plank and her editor have got some splainin’ to do. That title “Death by Veganism” seems like a bald-faced attempt to capitalize on anti-vegan public sentiment while the thesis of the piece, itself seems just plain wrong.

That baby did not die because it was given a vegatarian diet, but because it’s parents did not feed it properly. This is a story about child abuse, not the intrinsic insufficiency of an infant diet that is limited to plants.