I believe we’ve ALL had enough of the “Vegan-Jellicle”, ad nauseum discussion.

Wilmita

That’s what I trying to tell you. It’s not about agreeing or diagreeing with your position – it’s about the fact that this issue has gone o n for over 2 weeks, it is not a civil, intelligent, thought-provoking discussion (with differences of opinion), and there is now nothing but collateral damage (i.e., a whole bunch of other bystanding bloggers). It’s like being trapped in Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?, with horrified guests at cocktail party being cornered by a clutch of pugnacious, vitroilic drunks.

And the French have a lot more going on that just foie, which would make a welcome change in food item, while still being “Francophilically” on-topic, board-wise.

i will get back to a few issues…the same set that i have been asking right from the beginning before all the nonsense.

but first:

1. the breed of duck that is used to produce foie gras doesnt exist in nature. a mulard has never flown to migrate..a mulard never gorged itself to enlarge the store of fat in its liver by itself in anticipation of a harsh winter. and a mulard certainly didnt evolve on corn mush.

2. traditional foie gras was made from geese. they were fed pureed apples and pounded walnuts..not corn mush with ‘duck fat’.

3. if foie gras is a by product of migratory water fowl, can the current residents of foie gras farms migrate or even fly?

4. thousands of foie gras ducks are brought into existence and killed every year in the farms…and ’small scale’ foie gras production in france used to be no more than half a dozen or at the most a dozen per farm. how is this foie gras industry ’small scale’?

5. ducks are killed before they reach adulthood. they dont get to preen or waddle. they do not lead a ‘natural’ life as their natures made them. how is foie gras production natural when even the feeding of the ducks is done with tubes…rubber or metal is irrelevant..the point is that it involves gavage.

6.some have argued that ducks dont feel ‘pain’. i think they may be confusing gavage with actual pain that birds, as do most living things, feel.

7. it seems to me that foie gras production is a large scale industrial farm venture. it is a process that is unnatural and involves real meddling. it veers away a lot from ‘traditional’ foie gras production.

keeping in mind that i do not want everyone to become vegan..that i dont want foie gras banned..that i dont think businesses should be shut down or restaurants be vandalised…please consider why the lobbyists and PR firms hired by the foie gras industry is lying to the general public that foie gras is ‘traditional’, ’small scale’, ‘natural’ and ‘humane’.

it doesnt seem much different from industrial battery chicken/egg production. there is nothing illegal about consuming a product that is not unlike battery chicken..it is still acceptable in this country and elsewhere. so let it be…i am only asking that we not pretend that foie gras production is something which it is not..i am sure there are millions who can live with the fact that animals experience suffering and distress before coming to their plate as food. it is not my burden to bear, but it shouldnt have to be the lie that i have to swallow either.

animal welfare folks, vegans, vegetarians, omnivores in search of humanely raised animal products…we are not like foie gras ducks. we cant be forced to swallow the propoganda. just because some dont want to ask the right questions doesnt mean that the rest of us wont.

i am not looking to change minds or ‘convert’ anyone. i dont trust it will happen…not here anyways. but privately…inside your mind, ask yourself these important questions before repeating the propoganda you repeat. there is no ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ choice when it comes to what we eat. what we eat is what we want. but what is it that we *really* want after we cut through the bullshit, propoganda and the veil of lies.

Neither foie faction is going to change the others’ mind, so why not give the topic a rest? It’s been beaten, whipped, and pureéd into a smooth paté already, and the tone of the discussion has been both belligerent and personal from the get-go. This board is becoming a one-note topic. Let’s move on, shall we?

As intelligent, erudite, articulate and learned as some folks might be, this blog has degenerated into a screed-laden soapbox from which individuals are launching rabid diatribes on their personal, political or social agendas. It is getting tiresome – and worse – it is getting self-indulgent and nacissistic.

Ruhlman’s blog is one of the best – if not THE best – food blog on the Web. People not only read it, but cross-reference and cross-link it every freaking day. Let’s try and keep that in mind before anyone decides to indulge in yet another 20 column inches of what can only be termed “look at me – aren’t I clever” vitriol. Enough, already. I can’t speak for the entire community, but I can’t be the only one exhausted by this telenova (thank you, Vincent.) There are others on this blog, you know – it’s not about one person, one issue, and a need to “Don Quixote” one’s position into the ground.

OK< that’s long enough for me, too.

And that, my dear – is the difference between you and me. I dislike you intensely but if you needed an emergency shelter (completely with food, medical care, psychological care and financial assistance), I’d provide you with one, no questions asked (even though you clearly don’t deserve it).

And keep the bulk-rate bombshells to a minimum.

i must also add that i have never had any qualms about expressing it in crystal clear terms when i dont like someone from the human species. some of them are pond scum anyways and depending on the circumstances, i probably wont be tripping over myself to save their arses either. shocking, but true. i am sure it is not difficult to swallow this.

but hey!! thats an awesome speech anyways. you NAILED “something” indeed. you must print it out and frame it or something.

to bob degrosso: a duck is not a grizzly bear and while they can get a tad nasty, i doubt if they can cause loss of life or limb. what a bizarre parallel you guys have drawn.

to maya: a three year old cocker spaniel that has been rehomed thrice now is now under the care of a canine behaviour specialist because he has a worrisome biting habit. possibly rage syndrome. all because some arsehold breeder thought it was ok to keep breeding them and kept reproducing the aggressive gene of a show line dog. the dog will probably have to be euthanised if the specialist cant figure out why he is the way he is …because of someone else somewhere at sometime also thought that ‘dogs dont seem to be any worse the wear for it’ and kept breeding them indiscriminately for profit.

so..yea…i’d probably make the hard decision to destroy the dog because he is too dangerous to be around people..and i can live with that…but i think the person who caused it to happen ought to burn in hell..possessing human DNA doesnt mean that they ought to get a free pass. stupidity and malice seems to be hardwired stubbornly into some humans’ DNA anyways.

It’s been a long time! Nothing new here, but I’m (somewhat) enjoying the major challenges of grad school and hoping to earn a decent living once I get out!

Re: your comments, I agree about not trying to be right, I do so desperately need to work on my humility. If you read my previous comments you’ll see that I already answered your grizzly bear question quite clearly. If one was coming after me, my (theoretical) child, another human or even my cat, they would be a dead doggie. As for the cub, I’m a licensed wildlife rehabber so I would rehab it if I could catch it, otherwise it would be a dead doggie too.

Sorry, I was not very specific when I said “luxury” food, I just meant that we can usually choose a food that has been humanely raised. If the ducks are free roaming then that’s entirely different than being crammed into a cage for years and years.

I’ll see you at your blog, my friend! Happy belated holidays!!

I completely agree with you. All most animal rights activists really want is a bit of thoughtfulness. Real activists, that is. PETA does not represent most professional animal caregiver’s real values. Many of us eat meat, wear leather etc.

Finding the most humanely raised meat in your area is amazing. That’s all you need to do and as far as I’m concerned you have a clear conscience.

The only other big problem is environmental problems, which means we may have to cut down on meat, but will farms be replaced by Walmart? Hmmmm….

Foie gras is not a luxury food. Not to me at least.

It is just “food” and it is one member of the large constellation of ingredients that francophilic chefs like myself use in the pursuit of our craft. We also use all of the other edible parts of the ducks.

In my experience it is usually others, people who are not avocational Eurocentric chefs, who imbue foie gras with the quality of “luxury.” For the rest of us, it is just another delicious ingredient that we try to honor by not mucking it up with unnecessary seasoning while showcasing it’s unique identity or “isness,” if you will.

BTW, I don’t think there is any right opinion about this subject, neither do I think that there is a wrong opinion. If someone wants to believe that fioe gras is a luxury food well then, to them it is. And if I want to think about it as something that is “food” and not essentially different from a banana or a glass of milk then, who is anyone to tell me that I cannot?

Some of the people who post here seem so desperate to be right. It’s as if no one has ever taken them seriously and damnit, they just aren’t going to give up until everyone agrees with them.

I liked your question about why human life is are generally considered to be more valuable than animal life. I don’t think this is a question that can be answered directly. Rather I think the best response is an analogous question posed as a hypothetical situation.

You are walking with your child when you come upon a grizzly bear and her cub. You are carrying a 50 caliber rifle. The mother grizzly charges at your child. Do you shoot the mother bear knowing that her cub will die in the wild? Or do you sacrifice your child, run, and let the bears live?

I’m confused, did someone post those comments here? I’m assuming you were talking about me, but just like with Faustian you twisted my words beyond recognition!

I never, ever asked “Why is human life valueable”? In fact, I intimated that I would not “save” a dog who was attacking a person.

Maybe I should have been more clear, Jennie. I apologize. Human life always comes before an animal’s life. If someone wants to kill an animal for food, I believe they have the absolute, undeniable right to. If an animal bites a person, that animal should be destroyed. Immediately.

If a person comes face to face with a bear, and the bear is not hauling ass in the other direction, and is intimidating, that person has the absolute right to blast the bear in the face with a shotgun.

When I worked for the MSPCA I personally killed 800 young, healthy, happy, wonderful cats and dogs. Do you know why? Because people were moving to Florida, because their kids refused to care for it, because their new boyfriend did not like cats. I dragged all those animals to the euthanasia room and killed them so people could have their freedom.

And I’m pretty astonished by your assumption that I was involved with criminal activities. Would you like my address so you can send the cops? Because if I did those things I need to be sent to prison.

All I said was, philisophically, why is a human life more valueable than a human’s? Why, after killing all those animals, should I not ask people to have more compassion? That’s all!

Thank you for your attention, and remember:

Please don’t feed the bandwidth-hogging trolls.

Jennie, you NAILED it!

Wilmita