It sounds to me exactly like a distribution arrangement – the author pays production costs and has complete creative control over his/her book (just like self-publishing), and the publisher warehouses and distributes them. I’ve had my self-published books with a publisher as distributor and a distribution company, and in both scenarios they took a percentage, not vice-versa… that way I could hold on to as many copies of my own book as I wanted to sell at events etc. (at a cost of under $5 per book), rather than buy them at a 50% discount from the publisher. ($10+ plus shipping.)

Yes, the writer will have to write more on spec. However, like other self-publishers, all of my writing is on spec, and I have to do all the marketing, etc. to sell my books. Marketing and advertising and all of that is expensive. Many big publishers don’t want to pay for the marketing, either. Authors are left to do it.

So, if we are doing most of the work, anyway, and doing it on our own dime, anyway, why not publish ourselves?

I’m glad to see someone mention cookbooks as ebooks–I am waiting for this revolution. Both of my books are ebooks right now, and as yet may or may not make it to print. Ebooks are very profitable, on a small scale. All of a person’s recipes can be in a central location, and can also be printed out as necessary. Slopped sauce all over your recipe? No problem. People still want to hold, pore over, and caress a huge, heavily-photographed cookbook. I know I do.

But aren’t ebooks the practical side?

Lots of us bloggers are getting really good at food photography, shooting from the comforts of our home (not fancy studio), $600 dSLR, and good natural lighting or even inexpensive table-top professional photog lights. If you’ve got an eye for food styling and take the time to learn to use your camera, it’s definitely do-able. I took 6 months of just trial and error, learning as much as I could from online photography forums, studying food styling from cookbooks, magazines and websites.

I’m working on it now – every recipe will include a photograph. The publisher is happy (lesser risk with smaller advance); I’m happy (my first cookbook and I get to write, cook, photograph). Blog readers happy (they get to help me test and get a sneak peak into putting a book together). Next year when the book comes out I can link to Amazon and make 7% commission (as an Amazon Associate) + the royalty from Publisher. No inventory, no warehouse, no shipping, no dealing with consumer billing.

Yes, it’s a lot of work, but I’m loving every minute of it.

First, at 8 PM EDT – Rachael Ray

Second, at 9 PM EDT – Julia Child

My partner (he’s the chef) and I (I’m the cook) are very interested in publishing a cookbook, but it seems to be a very intimidating arena.

Unfortunately, we do not have the funds able to go on our own, so we will just have to wait for the publishers to fork over the advance.

Michael, what advise do you have for those trying to eek into the cookbook world without the deep pockets? In no way do we expect to become filthy rich, but we would like to be published and offer our knowledge to others. We both enjoy writing (we are co-columnists for the Tampa Tribune) and would like the opportunity to publish a different kind of book. Something that entertains and educates. The cook’s bedtime novel, if you will.

Do you really think this is a good thing? As a publisher compare
A) investing 3 million, while making 90% on the potential sales.

B) investing some far smaller amount and making some far smaller percentage on the potential sales.

In scenario B, where is the incentive for the publisher’s making an investment in marketing and promotion? Might as well start selling e-books on the web site.

I recently saw a special in PBS by Rick Steves not sure his last name. He goes on the road with two other guys and shoots a video for PBS on traveling in Europe in a very short period of time. The thing that stuck in my mind was that he does a lot in very little time and with very little gear and crew.
Basically I would explore making a DVD instead of a book. Books are fine but DVD’s are more fun and easily manufactured right in your own home with very little equipment. Now you have the internet to market your DVD or Book and you can pursue your own manufacturing, marketing and sales right out of your garage. You can try and maintain your intellectual property and cut out the publisher unless he deals with you on win win terms. I think a DVD is that extra step beyond the writing now you are acting and producing. Anyway its just a thought…. I am sure you have considered it. Come to think of it.. Bourdain probably does this very same thing. I did get the impression Rick pretty much does his own production with his two associates. Rick may have a video of how he does what he does… PBS was running a fund drive and you know they offer special gifts with the contribution levels.

The Costco analysis is a little incomplete. Publishers usually have to pay placement or “per-book” fees on top of that $20 you cite (and account gets 55-58% discount initially, btw, sometimes more). Sometimes there are additional, special packaging charges for these accounts, like corrugation, stickering, or shrink-wrapping. A publisher’s profits on sales to Costco, Wal-Mart, Target, office supply stores are frighteningly small after you take out costs of merchandising. You are very reliant on volume and you take a huge risk if the book doesn’t sell through.

Likewise, publishers pay funds (co-op) to retailers like Borders and Barnes & Noble to get your books featured on display tables front-of-store (or, in the case of Amazon, to get them featured prominently on the web page). This figure is usually based on a percentage of prior year’s sales with the publisher (all titles); if the publisher and retail buyer believe in your book, they’ll allocate some of those funds to promote it.

Running against all of this, as someone mentioned, is the potential for large returns. Publishers don’t exactly “buy back” returned books, it’s more of a rolling credit with the accounts, but it’s a quirk that is fairly specific to this industry. Most merchandisers sell non-returnable at higher discounts and then retailers mark down in place if it doesn’t sell. Books are different. They don’t go “on sale” the same that a shirt does.

As authors, it’s in your best interest to learn as much about these practices as possible. As you probably know it’s also in your best interest to do as much of your own marketing as possible to supplement the publisher’s efforts (a blog, restaurant display are great places to start), and to do that outreach well above and beyond the “launch” period for your title if you’re selling something that could potentially backlist well, like a cookbook.

The margins in this industry are terrifying. 3 – 6% profit is a banner year, unless you’re looking at professional or other niche publishing. And the internet, of course, has impacted this. Ironically the internet can be potentially MORE profitable if you are able to eliminate the “middle man” and many of the display and packaging costs, not to mention printing costs. But many publishers do NOT have viable electronic publishing strategies in hand just yet. I will be watching Harper Collins’ new model with interest.

Whew. Finally I can give back a little to the guy who taught me how to make veal stock.

On this point:

“I have no real way of knowing what sort of margins a publisher can pull from that… Like the recording industry, the winners end up paying for the losers.”

It just so happens that ex-Random-House-bigshot Andre Schiffrin was on CSPAN’s Book TV last night talking about the future of independent publishing, and one of the things he talked about was the way in which publishers have over the last few decades changed from a business model that brought them profit margins in the neighborhood of 3-4%, one that allowed them to take on riskier books and/or books they had no intention of profiting from financially, to one that demands profits upwards of 20% on as many titles as possible and practically eliminates less marketable books from the equation.

So in the past it seems that publishers weren’t nearly as concerned with the margins they could pull and, while profitable books always allowed them to take on books that didn’t make money, publishers were much less likely to see any book as a real loser, because regardless of its bottom line they believed in it.

It makes me think of the new Radiohead album, In Rainbows- I paid a small fortune for the actually album, online, got the digital download right away, and around Christmas, as promised, my beautiful album showed up in the mail. Was totally worth what I paid the band directly.

I can see this new model working, very well, for established talent, but think that the traditional model, probably works better for new talent breaking into the market.

DJK–I’ll look into specifics.

paris221966: I care about readers, that’s why i respond here and why i do my best to answer every single email i get.

And of course I care about money. I’m not a blockhead. I’m a little company of two (my wife takes pix) with two children, a mortgage, self-employeed and self-insured with no guarentee of a paycheck from month to month. And I took extraodinary, my father thought foolhardy, risks to be able to do what I care about. I’ve had every advantage and tried to use my luck well. The risks have paid off. So far. Nothing is certain. Yes, I care about money all the time. It’s just not the first thing I care about. If it were, I wouldn’t be a writer.

How harsh and rude, and so untrue.

If you think Ruhlman (or Bourdain, for that matter) doesn’t care about the fans, maybe you’re unaware of what an investment of time it is to have this website, and to respond to the questions and comments that are here…not to mention corresponding personally with a whole lot of people off-site.

I don’t know what your definition of a snob is, but neither of these guys fits it, in my book. But it’s a word people throw around without really questioning it.

Originally coming from a word meaning someone of inferior class who sought to imitate those of a higher rank. (That’s telling: that snobbery comes from the insecurity of being detected as less-than.) It later came to mean (from American Heritage Dictionary online):

1. One who tends to patronize, rebuff, or ignore people regarded as social inferiors and imitate, admire, or seek association with people regarded as social superiors.

2. One who affects an offensive air of self-satisfied superiority in matters of taste or intellect.

I think Ruhlman and Bourdain are neither of those things, and that’s why I hang around. True snobs (William F. Buckley comes to mind) are nauseating and exclusive.

I would posit that all rude remarks from those who hide behind the cowardly cloak of anonymity are corrupting good manners on the internet, and diluting the value of intelligent discourse.

Your mileage may vary, but I surely am not alone in appreciating how open and accessible both of these writers are to their fanbase, many of whom are also students.

Cheers, Michael and Tony. You guys rock. (Well, I don’t know that I call Dave Matthews Band actual ROCK, but you know what I mean.)

Rich snobs. All you care about is money and not the fans.

I’ll never buy your books or Bourdain’s books ever again.

Taking issue with whether or not they stand to make some if not a LOT of money with this approach sounds like sour grappa to me.