Comments on: The Tenderness of Pasta http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html Translating the Chef's Craft for Every Kitchen Mon, 15 Mar 2010 00:28:36 +0000 hourly 1 By: Colin http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37645 Colin Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37645 Aki and Alex at Ideas in Food posted a blog on cookie dough being vacuum sealed in order to hasten the absorption of flour instead of resting the dough for 2 days. After reading your article on pasta It dawned on me to vacuum seal pasta dough. We came up with a recipe of mostly egg yolk (5 whole eggs-25 yolks)and kneaded the dough to shag. Then we compressed the dough and wow was it tender. Aki and Alex at Ideas in Food posted a blog on cookie dough being vacuum sealed in order to hasten the absorption of flour instead of resting the dough for 2 days. After reading your article on pasta It dawned on me to vacuum seal pasta dough. We came up with a recipe of mostly egg yolk (5 whole eggs-25 yolks)and kneaded the dough to shag. Then we compressed the dough and wow was it tender.

]]> By: Matt W. http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37646 Matt W. Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37646 Waaaitaminute. Michael, you can get Vienna Beef dogs up in Cleveland? NOBODY carries them in Columbus, AT ALL. I've actually been visiting friends back in Chicago about twice a year and coming back with a cooler full of hot dogs and ice....plus that radioactive green relish! I gotta ask about your source, sir. Please, tell! Waaaitaminute. Michael, you can get Vienna Beef dogs up in Cleveland? NOBODY carries them in Columbus, AT ALL. I’ve actually been visiting friends back in Chicago about twice a year and coming back with a cooler full of hot dogs and ice….plus that radioactive green relish!

I gotta ask about your source, sir. Please, tell!

]]> By: Victoria http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37647 Victoria Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37647 I'm late to comment here, but as I'm writing out the fresh pasta recipe I have used forever, I came back to this post because I loved it so much. I noticed, Ruhlman, that you did not answer the question how do you roll the pasta. I would be interested to know if you do everything by hand - mixing, kneading (or not, of course), and rolling. This method is haunting. I will be trying it sometime soon. I wonder if Carol did make it for a weekend lunch and how it turned out. I’m late to comment here, but as I’m writing out the fresh pasta recipe I have used forever, I came back to this post because I loved it so much.

I noticed, Ruhlman, that you did not answer the question how do you roll the pasta. I would be interested to know if you do everything by hand – mixing, kneading (or not, of course), and rolling.

This method is haunting. I will be trying it sometime soon. I wonder if Carol did make it for a weekend lunch and how it turned out.

]]> By: luis http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37648 luis Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37648 Home made Pasta is here!. Made it in the Kitchen Aid all tha way. It was great that I made it in the first try but the best is still ahead as I improve on every aspect of it. Get it right.. let it rest.. season it properly.. get it to the correct moisture egg flour consistency... Practice makes perfect. I also have a ravioli cutter which will come in super handy for making home made ravioli. Not a thirty minute meal although it can/could be for sure. My meals from start to finish including cleaning as I go usually strech closer to an hour /hour and half. Unless they have many ingredients and long cooking times. I don't know about the breads but making fresh pasta is certainly very doable. It seems it should beat store bought... that remains to be seen. Everyone seemed to enjoy my first batch except maybe me. Because I don't think its quite there yet. I used bread flour which is what I happened to have on hand and there was lots of glutten etc... minor stuff when you are bringing up new techniques. I fully don't expect to be critical of it until I am past my twentieth batch...by then I expect everything to be worked out from the flour to the sauce and the dish to be as good as I can make it. Home made Pasta is here!. Made it in the Kitchen Aid all tha way. It was great that I made it in the first try but the best is still ahead as I improve on every aspect of it. Get it right.. let it rest.. season it properly.. get it to the correct moisture egg flour consistency… Practice makes perfect. I also have a ravioli cutter which will come in super handy for making home made ravioli.
Not a thirty minute meal although it can/could be for sure. My meals from start to finish including cleaning as I go usually strech closer to an hour /hour and half. Unless they have many ingredients and long cooking times. I don’t know about the breads but making fresh pasta is certainly very doable. It seems it should beat store bought… that remains to be seen. Everyone seemed to enjoy my first batch except maybe me. Because I don’t think its quite there yet.
I used bread flour which is what I happened to have on hand and there was lots of glutten etc… minor stuff when you are bringing up new techniques. I fully don’t expect to be critical of it until I am past my twentieth batch…by then I expect everything to be worked out from the flour to the sauce and the dish to be as good as I can make it.

]]> By: Robert http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37649 Robert Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37649 This blog inspired me to make the ravioli. At almost the same time in a group on myspace, a friend posted a picture of a perfectly cooked pork belly. Well I put the two together and blogged the thing if you are interested. http://climbhighak.blogspot.com/2008/08/not-your-everyday-bacon-and-eggs.html This blog inspired me to make the ravioli. At almost the same time in a group on myspace, a friend posted a picture of a perfectly cooked pork belly. Well I put the two together and blogged the thing if you are interested.

http://climbhighak.blogspot.com/2008/08/not-your-everyday-bacon-and-eggs.html

]]> By: David Emerson http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37650 David Emerson Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37650 i like this blog i like this blog

]]> By: TSITSI MUVUTI http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37651 TSITSI MUVUTI Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37651 i really want to start my own bakery but i am only 17 so can you assite me on how to actually be able to start on for i really admire your work and really want to be like you i really want to start my own bakery but i am only 17 so can you assite me on how to actually be able to start on for i really admire your work and really want to be like you

]]> By: Robert http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37652 Robert Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37652 This is a bit late, but I thought I would add it for the record. I tried the basic pasta recipe from Michael's ratio book. I kneaded half for ten minutes and the other half just enough to hold together. Both were rested in plastic wrap at room temperature for about an hour. I cooked the two batches separately for 4 minutes in salted water tasting as they cooked in case there were differences in cooking time. The results: 1) Rolling (with a pin) into a thin sheet was much easier with the kneaded dough. 2) Both had some "resistance" but it was a different type. The dough that was not kneaded felt kind of tough in a way I did not like, while the kneaded dough had more of the "bounce" that others have referred to. 3) The biggest difference was in the overall texture including the surface of the noodle. The final surface somewhat resembled the original dough with the kneaded dough having a nice slick satiny finish and nice mouth feel. The dough that was not kneaded seemed more "rustic" and grainy. So both tasted good but I prefer the kneaded dough. I can see, however, where some might like the result you can get from little kneading. This is a bit late, but I thought I would add it for the record. I tried the basic pasta recipe from Michael’s ratio book. I kneaded half for ten minutes and the other half just enough to hold together. Both were rested in plastic wrap at room temperature for about an hour. I cooked the two batches separately for 4 minutes in salted water tasting as they cooked in case there were differences in cooking time. The results:
1) Rolling (with a pin) into a thin sheet was much easier with the kneaded dough.
2) Both had some “resistance” but it was a different type. The dough that was not kneaded felt kind of tough in a way I did not like, while the kneaded dough had more of the “bounce” that others have referred to.
3) The biggest difference was in the overall texture including the surface of the noodle. The final surface somewhat resembled the original dough with the kneaded dough having a nice slick satiny finish and nice mouth feel. The dough that was not kneaded seemed more “rustic” and grainy.
So both tasted good but I prefer the kneaded dough. I can see, however, where some might like the result you can get from little kneading.

]]> By: Heather http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37643 Heather Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37643 You might find it interesting that I recently tried a pasta dough that used...22...yes, 22 egg yolks for 1 lb of pasta It is from Roberto Donna's cookbook. I spoke to him about it and he said he likes it best cut as tagliatele, boiled in chicken stock, and topped with, you guessed it, salt and another egg yolk and tossed to coat. The pasta is wonderful, and stays very light through the kneading and rolling You might find it interesting that I recently tried a pasta dough that used…22…yes, 22 egg yolks for 1 lb of pasta
It is from Roberto Donna’s cookbook. I spoke to him about it and he said he likes it best cut as tagliatele, boiled in chicken stock, and topped with, you guessed it, salt and another egg yolk and tossed to coat.
The pasta is wonderful, and stays very light through the kneading and rolling

]]> By: We Are Never Full http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37644 We Are Never Full Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37644 I absolutely want a bite of this. I saw a version of this with tonno and an egg on top but the pasta was fried. Add an egg to anything and I'm hooked. I absolutely want a bite of this. I saw a version of this with tonno and an egg on top but the pasta was fried. Add an egg to anything and I’m hooked.

]]> By: luis http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37642 luis Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37642 Basically my first pasta experience at home will come after I reconfigure the counter with the Kitchen Aid machine back in and the Imperia pasta roller attachement on the counter. I will roll it out to a 3 or a 5 setting and fold it and using a knife cut it up into a chiffonade tagliatelly style. Also it seems the cooking time for fresh pasta is very quick ~2 to 3 min?. Makes sense I guess I will cross that one in due time. In the meantime I have ordered a 2 in hand ravioli cutter which I expect will work just fine to make home made ravioli. Basically my first pasta experience at home will come after I reconfigure the counter with the Kitchen Aid machine back in and the Imperia pasta roller attachement on the counter. I will roll it out to a 3 or a 5 setting and fold it and using a knife cut it up into a chiffonade tagliatelly style. Also it seems the cooking time for fresh pasta is very quick ~2 to 3 min?. Makes sense I guess I will cross that one in due time.
In the meantime I have ordered a 2 in hand ravioli cutter which I expect will work just fine to make home made ravioli.

]]> By: Sean http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37640 Sean Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37640 Yahoo To be sure we love our all beef hot dogs here in Chicago! There are many fantastic places. Yahoo
To be sure we love our all beef hot dogs here in Chicago! There are many fantastic places.

]]> By: luis http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37641 luis Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37641 Been watching pasta making clips on utube. I know how to use the hand cranker Imperia in my pantry now. But most impressive is the ease of making the pasta in the Kitchen Aid. They recommend using the paddle attachement and its very very easy. I don't have the attachements for pasta to the Kitchen Aid. They are not cheap but they make the process very very quick and simple and fun. It's worth strechtching for it down the road. And the kitchen aid ravioli maker is to die for terrific. As far as bread baking at home I had a chance to discuss my process with the son of a baker. Also I read Alton Brown's baking book on yeasts. Basically I think now that the dough can not proofed in one day no matter how much it rises or how many times you repeat that process. I am told the dough needs at least two days for the yeast to properly develop and outside the refrigerator. Also a pizziola recommended at least a day before for pizza dough to properly develop. The bread in one day thing always results in a more compact and dense and less airy bread. Delicious yes but not crispy and airy. I have been waiting nearly two years to make truly crispy and airy bread. Perhaps this is the answer I have been seeking. Even my best bread done in two rises ~half a day comes out light but denser than I want it to be. So Basically I think crisp crusty but airy bread can not be achieved with a couple of rises. And I have tried every oven trick in the book. you know the stone, the water bin....the place in the oven... you name it. Anyway as always Rhulman and all you have given me much inspiration to learn and improve. My knife skills were elevated by Pepin's techniques...I am amazed how they are coming along... Outstanding you all.....keep it up. Been watching pasta making clips on utube. I know how to use the hand cranker Imperia in my pantry now.

But most impressive is the ease of making the pasta in the Kitchen Aid. They recommend using the paddle attachement and its very very easy. I don’t have the attachements for pasta to the Kitchen Aid. They are not cheap but they make the process very very quick and simple and fun. It’s worth strechtching for it down the road. And the kitchen aid ravioli maker is to die for terrific.

As far as bread baking at home I had a chance to discuss my process with the son of a baker. Also I read Alton Brown’s baking book on yeasts. Basically I think now that the dough can not proofed in one day no matter how much it rises or how many times you repeat that process.
I am told the dough needs at least two days for the yeast to properly develop and outside the refrigerator. Also a pizziola recommended at least a day before for pizza dough to properly develop. The bread in one day thing always results in a more compact and dense and less airy bread. Delicious yes but not crispy and airy. I have been waiting nearly two years to make truly crispy and airy bread. Perhaps this is the answer I have been seeking.

Even my best bread done in two rises ~half a day comes out light but denser than I want it to be. So Basically I think crisp crusty but airy bread can not be achieved with a couple of rises. And I have tried every oven trick in the book. you know the stone, the water bin….the place in the oven… you name it.

Anyway as always Rhulman and all you have given me much inspiration to learn and improve.

My knife skills were elevated by Pepin’s techniques…I am amazed how they are coming along… Outstanding you all…..keep it up.

]]> By: ruhlman http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37639 ruhlman Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37639 pardus, glad the bread routine works! "old-chicagos" is shorthand for me for vienna beef hot dogs, which are the best in the world (says me) and which I wrote about <a href="http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/2000s/2006/08/goingtothedogs" rel="nofollow"><em>for Gourmet</em></a. pardus, glad the bread routine works!

“old-chicagos” is shorthand for me for vienna beef hot dogs, which are the best in the world (says me) and which I wrote about for Gourmet

]]> By: luis http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37638 luis Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37638 well, after making eggrolls and wontons recently I vow the pasta is next. I simply can not improve on the eggroll with the store bought pasta squares. They came out fine but there is always a feeling the pasta is way too pedestrian. Geezz yes going down this path is extremelly labor intensive. The fresh filling, the eggrolls the pasta? I don't know. I will try making some regular pasta though. It doesn't have to be paper thin or anything like that. See how much work it is. I hate lengthy recipes. well, after making eggrolls and wontons recently I vow the pasta is next. I simply can not improve on the eggroll with the store bought pasta squares. They came out fine but there is always a feeling the pasta is way too pedestrian. Geezz yes going down this path is extremelly labor intensive. The fresh filling, the eggrolls the pasta?
I don’t know. I will try making some regular pasta though. It doesn’t have to be paper thin or anything like that. See how much work it is. I hate lengthy recipes.

]]> By: Camusman http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37634 Camusman Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37634 non-pasta related . . . Ruhlman, can't you get Tony to blog again about the greatest travesty on television, The Next Food Network Star? His blogs last year were some of his funniest stuff ever. I'm praying that he hasn't been muzzled by a Tischman contract because TFN brought back A Chef's Tour. non-pasta related . . .
Ruhlman, can’t you get Tony to blog again about the greatest travesty on television, The Next Food Network Star? His blogs last year were some of his funniest stuff ever. I’m praying that he hasn’t been muzzled by a Tischman contract because TFN brought back A Chef’s Tour.

]]> By: DM http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37635 DM Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37635 Made it. Yum! It was my first time making pasta. I had to throw the first batch away bc I couldn't make it come together. But I jumped on Youtube and watched some technique videos (and found a slightly different recipe), and voila! I hand rolled it, which made it a tad thick, but that ricotta filling is killer. I'm enjoying the leftover filling on asparagus today for lunch. Made it. Yum! It was my first time making pasta. I had to throw the first batch away bc I couldn’t make it come together. But I jumped on Youtube and watched some technique videos (and found a slightly different recipe), and voila! I hand rolled it, which made it a tad thick, but that ricotta filling is killer. I’m enjoying the leftover filling on asparagus today for lunch.

]]> By: neil http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37636 neil Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37636 Love the way, despite a busy life, you find the time to fit in your parents and share with them all the unique and wonderful foods you've discovered. I'd like to know too, what are Old Chicagos? I'm sure it's not a cover band. Love the way, despite a busy life, you find the time to fit in your parents and share with them all the unique and wonderful foods you’ve discovered. I’d like to know too, what are Old Chicagos? I’m sure it’s not a cover band.

]]> By: S G R http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37637 S G R Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37637 Old Chicago's (sic) are likely Chicago style hot dogs. A nicely informative word may be found here: http://www.enginova.com/chicago_hot_dogs.htm Old Chicago’s (sic) are likely Chicago style hot dogs. A nicely informative word may be found here:
http://www.enginova.com/chicago_hot_dogs.htm

]]> By: Daniel Boyle http://blog.ruhlman.com/2008/07/the-tenderness.html/comment-page-1#comment-37633 Daniel Boyle Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2008/07/the-tenderness.html#comment-37633 In addition to the comments above, when rolling out pasta dough by hand, consider using (clean, obviously) wooden dowels or yardsticks to get the correct thickness (obviously if you're making very thin pasta it doesn't work, but with a little effort you ought to be able to find something that will work. In addition to the comments above, when rolling out pasta dough by hand, consider using (clean, obviously) wooden dowels or yardsticks to get the correct thickness (obviously if you’re making very thin pasta it doesn’t work, but with a little effort you ought to be able to find something that will work.

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