Comments on: Vanilla Sauce in Black and White http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html Translating the Chef's Craft for Every Kitchen Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:48:04 +0000 hourly 1 By: KB http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32578 KB Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32578 Late to the fray here, but I observe that regarding yolks, Ruhlman's recipe is very similar to the proportions (or "ratios") in my longstanding creme anglaise recipe from Julia Child's The Way To Cook. I long ago modified JC's recipe to include less sugar, as it was a bit too sweet for my taste, and to include a vanilla bean. It ends up just about the same as Ruhlman's, but without the cream (just milk -- and I've never made a creme anglaise as such with cream). The Way To Cook was published in 1989, and, as retro as Julia may have been, that is far from the Escoffier and Careme references people are making. On the other hand, regarding the cream, I am a little baffled by its inclusion. Creme anglaise is my favorite dessert component, and I've never made it with cream. I surmise that, perhaps, in a laudable, but not always successful, effort to simplify, the cream was added to make the sauce a viable ice cream and creme brulee without changing the recipe? Creme anglaise should be a delicate sauce for an already delicious dessert of fruit, chocolate, meringue, etc. Ice cream/creme brulee must stand on their own, and the enrichment of cream makes sense. I think the creme anglaise recipe should not include cream, and the ice cream and creme brulee variations should. Late to the fray here, but I observe that regarding yolks, Ruhlman’s recipe is very similar to the proportions (or “ratios”) in my longstanding creme anglaise recipe from Julia Child’s The Way To Cook. I long ago modified JC’s recipe to include less sugar, as it was a bit too sweet for my taste, and to include a vanilla bean. It ends up just about the same as Ruhlman’s, but without the cream (just milk — and I’ve never made a creme anglaise as such with cream). The Way To Cook was published in 1989, and, as retro as Julia may have been, that is far from the Escoffier and Careme references people are making.

On the other hand, regarding the cream, I am a little baffled by its inclusion. Creme anglaise is my favorite dessert component, and I’ve never made it with cream. I surmise that, perhaps, in a laudable, but not always successful, effort to simplify, the cream was added to make the sauce a viable ice cream and creme brulee without changing the recipe? Creme anglaise should be a delicate sauce for an already delicious dessert of fruit, chocolate, meringue, etc. Ice cream/creme brulee must stand on their own, and the enrichment of cream makes sense. I think the creme anglaise recipe should not include cream, and the ice cream and creme brulee variations should.

]]> By: kevin http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32577 kevin Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32577 Thank god for the clueless. Ratios is about starting points, not ending points. If you want to use fewer eggs then do so, just stay in the ball park. Chesterman is splitting hairs but also (and this is the "thank god" part from Michael's POV) generating traffic for the blog and interest in the book. Hopefully now that I've called her clueless she come she'll come criticise some of my recipes. Thank god for the clueless. Ratios is about starting points, not ending points. If you want to use fewer eggs then do so, just stay in the ball park.

Chesterman is splitting hairs but also (and this is the “thank god” part from Michael’s POV) generating traffic for the blog and interest in the book. Hopefully now that I’ve called her clueless she come she’ll come criticise some of my recipes.

]]> By: Amy http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32576 Amy Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32576 I haven't tried either recipe and by no means am I an authority on cooking, but I think Ms. Chesterman has been rather presumptuous in the way she has voiced her concerns. Frankly, it's turned me off on reading her blog, which is unfortunate because I do enjoy reading about food. I would suggest that in the future she consider voicing her concerns more politely. I haven’t tried either recipe and by no means am I an authority on cooking, but I think Ms. Chesterman has been rather presumptuous in the way she has voiced her concerns.
Frankly, it’s turned me off on reading her blog, which is unfortunate because I do enjoy reading about food.
I would suggest that in the future she consider voicing her concerns more politely.

]]> By: zaine_ridling http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32575 zaine_ridling Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32575 It's been said many times before, but the photography for this blog -- and your books -- really enhances the writing. That's more difficult than it looks to get a good shot. Thanks go to the wife. It’s been said many times before, but the photography for this blog — and your books — really enhances the writing. That’s more difficult than it looks to get a good shot. Thanks go to the wife.

]]> By: luis http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32574 luis Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32574 Success...Ice Cream at last. What a charge....to think I can now make ice cream thousands...millions different ways and flavors....wow! I am on cloud 9. A simple thing...a giant new frontier for me. Success…Ice Cream at last. What a charge….to think I can now make ice cream thousands…millions different ways and flavors….wow! I am on cloud 9. A simple thing…a giant new frontier for me.

]]> By: Arturo http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32573 Arturo Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32573 I am amazed at the passion that this book and this formula have inflamed! Both here and on egullet, wow. I really think this is a great book. There I said it. Whether you are a chef or a home cook, thinking in formulas frees you up. As a chef the more you know the more of yourself and your opinions you can add to it. Do I have quibbles? sure I do (for instance not having egg yolks as part of the formula for Mayo. I get theory but it's still unhelpful), but then I can open excel and make my own formula sheet. I am amazed at the passion that this book and this formula have inflamed! Both here and on egullet, wow.

I really think this is a great book. There I said it. Whether you are a chef or a home cook, thinking in formulas frees you up.

As a chef the more you know the more of yourself and your opinions you can add to it.

Do I have quibbles? sure I do (for instance not having egg yolks as part of the formula for Mayo. I get theory but it’s still unhelpful), but then I can open excel and make my own formula sheet.

]]> By: ruhlman http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32571 ruhlman Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32571 jonathan: recipe calls for 16 oz liquid, 4 ounces yolk and sugar jonathan: recipe calls for 16 oz liquid, 4 ounces yolk and sugar

]]> By: luis http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32572 luis Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32572 Ratio is awesome... great book. My first try at making ice cream from a vanilla cream anglaise worked perfectly and then I screwed up several times there after...which is how I learn. I should have gone from coat the back of the spoon right to the freezer and finito.. Also I know the egg liquid mixture needs to cross the 160 temp barrier to kill bacteria but there is a point at which things just get a bit too hot...now I know what happens when I cross that temp too... Learning curve thing.... Johathan there is one liquid in two parts... Add the cream and the milk together and see it is 4:1:1 no matter how you scale it. This is the power of using ratios.. you can DOUBLE or TRIPLE UP on the basic recipe with ease. Rhulman ratios are golden, our math needs work...sigh. Ratio is awesome… great book. My first try at making ice cream from a vanilla cream anglaise worked perfectly and then I screwed up several times there after…which is how I learn. I should have gone from coat the back of the spoon right to the freezer and finito.. Also I know the egg liquid mixture needs to cross the 160 temp barrier to kill bacteria but there is a point at which things just get a bit too hot…now I know what happens when I cross that temp too… Learning curve thing….

Johathan
there is one liquid in two parts… Add the cream and the milk together and see it is 4:1:1 no matter how you scale it. This is the power of using ratios.. you can DOUBLE or TRIPLE UP on the basic recipe with ease.

Rhulman ratios are golden, our math needs work…sigh.

]]> By: Jonathan http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32570 Jonathan Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32570 the recipe and the ratio do not match...the recipe seems to follow 2:1:1 ratio instead of 4:1:1....anyone? the recipe and the ratio do not match…the recipe seems to follow 2:1:1 ratio instead of 4:1:1….anyone?

]]> By: luis http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32569 luis Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32569 Thank you.... my math is wayyyy off. This is my Friday( I am beat) Tomorrow I make cream anglaise ice cream. In a 1.5 qt machine I am only dealing with six cups. So I will shoot for 16 oz of milk 16 oz of cream ~1 or 2 vanilla beans 8 oz yolk 8 oz sugar (which I can fudge with probably 4 oz of splenda.. that I find to be sweeter than sugar). Thank you Michael... life is good again. Thank you…. my math is wayyyy off. This is my Friday( I am beat) Tomorrow I make cream anglaise ice cream.
In a 1.5 qt machine I am only dealing with six cups.
So I will shoot for
16 oz of milk
16 oz of cream
~1 or 2 vanilla beans
8 oz yolk
8 oz sugar (which I can fudge with probably 4 oz of splenda.. that I find to be sweeter than sugar).
Thank you Michael… life is good again.

]]> By: ruhlman http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32568 ruhlman Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32568 luis the quantities you give would result in at least in 16 cups or a gallon of ice cream. four twelve cups try 9 total cups liquid (or 8 or 10 to make the ratio simpler). but still that's a lot of ice cream, three quarts? luis the quantities you give would result in at least in 16 cups or a gallon of ice cream. four twelve cups try 9 total cups liquid (or 8 or 10 to make the ratio simpler). but still that’s a lot of ice cream, three quarts?

]]> By: luis http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32567 luis Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32567 My shiny new 12 cup ice cream maker is in...and I am hopeful but also bummed. The devil is in the details...and Ice Cream is just wrong as Ben and Jerry's or even this Cream Anglaise recipe shows.... The 4:1:1 ratio is significant and the point of the book. This is the "Pearl of Wisdom" in this chapter. However the recipe is just a non starter in this day and age. For twelve cups... We'd need something like six cups whole milk six cups heavy cream 24 egg yolks 3 cups of sugar 3 vanilla beans. ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? what are you thinking man...@800 cal/cup... Thats ~ 10,000 cals or a guaranteed 4 more lbs for the Omentum.... Honestly for a guy who believes in humane farming and treatment of animals....I would really expect more socially responsible recipes. End of rant.... still like you Rhulman but dude... lets be try to be more calorie correct... always left to the home cook to make some sense out of what we eat. This is the whole point of getting an ice cream maker in the first place. Wonder if your ratio will work with skim milk or even soymilk and a fraction of the eggs and cream???? The hard work and research is again left up to the individual cook....sigh!!!!!!!!! My shiny new 12 cup ice cream maker is in…and I am hopeful but also bummed.
The devil is in the details…and Ice Cream is just wrong as Ben and Jerry’s or even this Cream Anglaise recipe shows….
The 4:1:1 ratio is significant and the point of the book. This is the “Pearl of Wisdom” in this chapter.
However the recipe is just a non starter in this day and age.
For twelve cups… We’d need something like
six cups whole milk
six cups heavy cream
24 egg yolks
3 cups of sugar
3 vanilla beans.
ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? what are you thinking man…@800 cal/cup… Thats ~ 10,000 cals or a guaranteed 4 more lbs for the Omentum….
Honestly for a guy who believes in humane farming and treatment of animals….I would really expect more socially responsible recipes. End of rant…. still like you Rhulman but dude… lets be try to be more calorie correct… always left to the home cook to make some sense out of what we eat.
This is the whole point of getting an ice cream maker in the first place.
Wonder if your ratio will work with skim milk or even soymilk and a fraction of the eggs and cream???? The hard work and research is again left up to the individual cook….sigh!!!!!!!!!

]]> By: luis http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32566 luis Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32566 The Ice Cream machine is in the kitchen and I plan to execute this vanilla bean ice cream ratio as soon as I get hold of a vanilla bean. Fun.... The Ice Cream machine is in the kitchen and I plan to execute this vanilla bean ice cream ratio as soon as I get hold of a vanilla bean. Fun….

]]> By: luis http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32565 luis Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32565 Michael, I wikied "Golden Ratio" you guys should too... 1.61....ddaddadad...a Do you know that is the basic bread ratio????? Have you thought about taking this thing a step farther than Uwe Hestnar and connecting these cooking ratios to the Golden Ratio or other such important ratios? Betcha that would give Milo a thing to think ha!!!.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio Golden Ratio.... for bread... The total length flour(5) + water(3)=8 is to the longer segment flour(5) as flour(5) is to the shorter segment water(3). Or 8/5 is approx equal to 5/3.... your ratio is Golden Michael... I wonder how many other such relations exist???? this sounds like work again don't it? You and Uwe started it.....don't look at me... Michael, I wikied “Golden Ratio” you guys should too… 1.61….ddaddadad…a
Do you know that is the basic bread ratio?????
Have you thought about taking this thing a step farther than Uwe Hestnar and connecting these cooking ratios to the Golden Ratio or other such important ratios? Betcha that would give Milo a thing to think ha!!!….

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio

Golden Ratio…. for bread…

The total length flour(5) + water(3)=8 is to the longer segment flour(5) as flour(5) is to the shorter segment water(3).

Or 8/5 is approx equal to 5/3…. your ratio is Golden Michael…
I wonder how many other such relations exist???? this sounds like work again don’t it? You and Uwe started it…..don’t look at me…

]]> By: ruhlman http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32563 ruhlman Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32563 a couple commenters said they tried to comment so am testing. fyi, no comments should have been deleted from this post. i almost never delete posts unless they're spam, mean for no reason or way off topic. a couple commenters said they tried to comment so am testing. fyi, no comments should have been deleted from this post. i almost never delete posts unless they’re spam, mean for no reason or way off topic.

]]> By: Cameron S. http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32564 Cameron S. Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32564 they probably forgot the captcha part... Anyways, good post Michael - I think this sort of classical recipe is a good start to the topic, if you want to minimize yolk inputs then great. Find your own path, starting with classics helps a lot of people I think. they probably forgot the captcha part…

Anyways, good post Michael – I think this sort of classical recipe is a good start to the topic, if you want to minimize yolk inputs then great. Find your own path, starting with classics helps a lot of people I think.

]]> By: cheflaszlo http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32561 cheflaszlo Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32561 tis blog is obviously a place to visit...like the comments too, thanks tis blog is obviously a place to visit…like the comments too, thanks

]]> By: luis http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32562 luis Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32562 From now on... this is how I cook. Using RATIO's. and FLAVORS. Working on my version of "Chipino" assorted seafood soup as I see it. I will make fish stock per the "Ratio" book and then add the seafood and my flavors. Fish stock, half and half, the bounty of the sea with chopped leeks and my favorite herbs and spices... (Got a ton of that farm raised shrimp shells from Thailand).. Sustainable sources is the key. This will be great!. From now on… this is how I cook. Using RATIO’s. and FLAVORS. Working on my version of “Chipino” assorted seafood soup as I see it. I will make fish stock per the “Ratio” book and then add the seafood and my flavors. Fish stock, half and half, the bounty of the sea with chopped leeks and my favorite herbs and spices… (Got a ton of that farm raised shrimp shells from Thailand).. Sustainable sources is the key. This will be great!.

]]> By: Claudia http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32560 Claudia Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32560 It may be good to lighten up a bit, but I believe a lot of the re-doing of older recipes is a direct result of the processed, packaged, "easy to prepare" and fast-food industries. For purposes of cost, shelf life, etc. compromises are made and additives need then to be included to compensate. The thinking has filtered down to influencing and changing mainstream cooking. I appreciate your take on the situation, and am enjoying my copy of Ratio. It may be good to lighten up a bit, but I believe a lot of the re-doing of older recipes is a direct result of the processed, packaged, “easy to prepare” and fast-food industries. For purposes of cost, shelf life, etc. compromises are made and additives need then to be included to compensate. The thinking has filtered down to influencing and changing mainstream cooking. I appreciate your take on the situation, and am enjoying my copy of Ratio.

]]> By: ruhlman http://blog.ruhlman.com/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html/comment-page-1#comment-32559 ruhlman Tue, 30 Nov 1999 06:00:00 +0000 http://ruhlman.com/newblog/2009/04/vanilla-sauce-in-black-and-white.html#comment-32559 marlene's right in all she's commented on. milo, good question. In trying to keep the ratio basic i didn't want to have .75 parts yolk or 6 parts liquid 1.5 parts sugar and 1 part yolk. I studied many many recipes and tested varying proportions represented, from Escoffier to Bouchon, and these are the ones I found worked best and were also the most simply represented. I did not go up on a mountain and come down with these things carved in stone. Salty, did you weigh out the yolks or use seven yolks? Also, it sounds like you cooked it too hard. It should not be the consistency of pastry cream, good or bad. It should be pourable when cold, the consistency in the top photo. S. Woody, great comment thanks. marlene’s right in all she’s commented on.

milo, good question. In trying to keep the ratio basic i didn’t want to have .75 parts yolk or 6 parts liquid 1.5 parts sugar and 1 part yolk. I studied many many recipes and tested varying proportions represented, from Escoffier to Bouchon, and these are the ones I found worked best and were also the most simply represented. I did not go up on a mountain and come down with these things carved in stone.

Salty, did you weigh out the yolks or use seven yolks? Also, it sounds like you cooked it too hard. It should not be the consistency of pastry cream, good or bad. It should be pourable when cold, the consistency in the top photo.

S. Woody, great comment thanks.

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